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GoogleThe board unanimously approved the ISL resolution of intent to participate at their Monday night meeting.
The board set 5:30 p.m. Wednesday, Jan. 7, 2009, as the time for a public hearing on the resolution. The hearing will be held at the Education Service Center, 940 Lincoln St. S.W.
The board is considering participating in the instructional support program for a period of five years, as provided in Iowa Code, commencing with the fiscal year ending June 30, 2010. The money would be used for the district's 2009-10 school year.
Board president Dr. Mark Stelzer felt the board has responded to its critics by not asking for the full 10 percent allowed under Iowa law as had been requested in the two previous ISL resolutions that failed.
"I think this addresses the concerns that I did hear which was the flexibility that was frightening and the total amount," said Stelzer. "It also recommits, even though this is more understood than actually spelled out, our commitment to keeping this budget as tight as we possibly can, because we're not asking for the most we possibly could want."
Board members have discussed the use of the instructional support program at a number of meetings as a way to bring money in to the general fund of the school district's budget.
The general fund provides for such educational expenditures as teacher/staff salaries, textbooks, supplies, utilities and fuel for the transportation fleet.
Two previous attempts to implement the instructional support program failed when district residents petitioned to bring the issue to a vote. The issue was defeated in March and again in September.
As stated in the resolution to consider participating in the program, the board's asking for money will not exceed 6 percent of the total regular program district cost for the budget year.
The resolution also states the instructional support program will be funded by instructional support state aid and a combination of instructional support property tax levied annually and an instructional support income surtax not to exceed 3 percent to be imposed annually on the state individual income tax of each individual income taxpayer resident in the school district.
"We are also committed to keeping costs under control as best we can, through personnel changes or program reductions should that have to happen, we want to keep that to a minimum," Stelzer added.
Stelzer emphasized the district absolutely has to have support and especially with the state budget crunch, referring to Gov. Chet Culver's 1 1/2 percent across-the-board budget cut in state spending, including state aid for education, for this fiscal year.
"It's all the more important for us to support education locally because it is truly everything," Stelzer said,
"The most recent thing I saw from IASB (Iowa Association of School Boards) was education is economic development," Stelzer shared. "Education is vital to our community to keep us viable and a good, desirable place to live and work, I believe that always, but no less so in economic difficulties."
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here it goes again. :)
Yah, but your for it and posted the 1st blog, why?
Congratulations to the school board! You finally figured it out and lowered the percentage. It's interesting you couldn't bring yourselves to be content with the 5% you SAY you need, but at least 6% max is better that the full 10%. This may garner the additional support you need to stave off yet another vote. However, if it does come to a vote and fails again, please follow the "three strikes and you're out" policy. We're all tired of this. You always have the Cash Reserve Levy to forcibly raise needed funds.
Since the state cuts are mentioned in the above article, it caused me to ponder something new. The Le Mars school district is one of the few hold-outs who haven't passed the ISL. With the massive overspending at the state level (including the $4,980 checks to every full-time teacher), I wonder how long the SILO money they confiscated will be held for education. Once the state leaders have found a way to spend that, they may set their sites on the ISL next.
Lets all jump on this and really sound stupid.
It's not tough, you've done it before.
Blah blah blah blah blah school needs your help blah blah.
And then blah blah blah blah more money blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah we really need it blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah it will be less this time blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah we need your support blah.
Oh and don't forget blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah. Blah hope this passes this time blah blah blah blah blah.
My point is made about ISL.
Thanks
Not going to lie but Huskerfan I about tinkled myself laughing at your post! Cute Very Cute ;)
Good Luck To Both Sides Once Again!
Yet Again Another War To Be Had By This Article!
Toodles I'm Out This Time. (My Votes Still The Same But I have Better Things To Do Then Hear Whining.)
P.s. Merry Christmas
It will never go away, if this doesnt pass you can bet they will try again and again, until they get the outcome they want. They are ever vigilant................
The thing that bothers me the most is what we may be teaching our children about responsibility and accountability. this is no different than the banks and automakers bailout. Are we teaching our children that you do not have be accountable for your actions because there will be someone to bail you out. And if you dont get it the first time, you keep asking and asking untill they finally give in.
I dont believe you can you can associate the quality of an education with a dollar figure. is this ISL going to guarantee our children a better education, i think not. We must all learn to live within our means.
The Esteemed Dr. Stelzer said "We are also committed to keeping costs under control as best we can,..."
That statement isn't very comforting to me...either you do or you don't keep costs under control...
Yes.. there are some veribles...but you control the costs you can...such as pay/raises and programs.
They haven't proven they can live within their means! They haven't done the best they can!
If anyone actually believes that if this passes, they will not be back asking for more money within 3 years..they are dreaming.
Daniel Webster once told us that "A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many bad measures."
Funny how the board thinks a pay raise is in order for teachers and staff and hasn't enough money to support it. Must we spend beyond the budget and still ask for more?
I Think it is alright to put out the funds for another ISL that can be voted down, it really shows how the people feel about the school board's lack of financial resposnibilities. It does NOT say we don't care about the children or the quality of education.
How about recalculating the pay raise to the staff this year for -3%, yes a pay cut. Would that put the budget to a balanced level? I am a firm believer after what I have seen with Charter schools and their ability to do a fantastic job within a budget. Maybe it is time.
I also believe in merit and standards. Set up a merit system that rewards great work, and discourages lack of quality. Offer voluteer lists for people of the community to participate (they will come and help if allowed a chance). Cost cutting measures here could make the budget work! IT IS POSSIBLE!
Board members, please hear the voices of the people of the community.
The 2 largest portions of the budget are pay and benefits. My best estimate for health insurance benefit costs are about 2 million of the budget. I would like to see what can or has been done to reduce that portion. A 20% reduction in that cost alone is about 400,000 dollars. I did like Dan Smiths approach on using the SILO funds to make our school buildings more energy effecient. Maybe use the money to build a wind generator like Akron or a solar panel grid to cut energy costs. The smaller costs associated with music or sports for 8th, 9th, and 10th grade can be funded through fundraisers if need be instead of being cut. Like I posted earlier one fundraier that can go year round if need be has never been initiated but has been suggested a number of times by me.
So, is it suggested that school districts across the state are also financially irresponsible? Most school district in the state of Iowa have the ISL tax; LeMars is one of few that doesnt't. So, is it a mass effort by school boards to tax their communities?
Also, the auto bail out and the bank bail out are alittle different than this situation. The public school is a government institution which relies on public funding. The auto industry and banks are private and do not rely on government money, until now that is. So, the comparison doesn't work.
ADifferentView,
The board could propose a 3% cut and refuse to negotiate further. There would be a call for mediation. If the board continues it's 3% cut stand in mediation an Arbitrator automatically considers "the district's ability to levy taxes for the conduct of its operations."
Then the Arbitrator chooses between either the district's or the teacher's final offer.
If he finds for the teachers the district must comply with his award either through the district's general fund balance of $1.2 million or our unspent authority of $4.8 million via a Cash Reserve Levy.
Anyway, Merry Christmas everyone!
Mr. Smith,
Who is this Arbitrator?
Also I'm sure you have access to how much these votes cost us each time.
former_resident said:
"Most school district in the state of Iowa have the ISL tax; LeMars is one of few that doesnt't."
Not to be cliche-ish but if all your friends jumped off a bridge, would you?
It is very similar to the Auto Bailout in respect to the Unions (Teachers in this case) leading us into ruin.
Anyone can click on the link below and see there is no significant difference between the districts that have the ISL and those that don't.
Click it look around and compare.
https://www.edinfo.state.ia.us/data/profileschart.asp?t=d&f1=1&s0=36000000
"cranemaster" is exactly right in saying $'s spent does not equal a quality education.
Samuel Adams once said that "Mankind are governed more by their feelings than by reason."
I'm just saying mismanagement may not be the entire problem here. However, I am sure, as in any business that has ever existed in the entire world, there is some sort of mismanagement or places of improvement. I doubt that it is hundreds of thousands of dollars worth though.
This situation is happening throughout the nation. Do you believe the an entire nation of school boards are mismanaging their systems. And therefore burdoning their communities with taxes?
I'm not saying lets do it because everyone else is. I'm trying portray to you the a gross mismanagement may not be the situation here which many of you are implying because we aren't the only ones.
Ok, yea, it's a bail out. But it's not private industry asking the government to bail them out. It's government asking their people to bail out government. Which has always been practiced. So I suppose our situation can loosely and poorly be compared to the auto/bank bail out. But our situation is not socialistic. So don't call it an outrage.
It's not a situation of responsibitiy and accountibility because this is how our government works. Government relies on your money. When governemnt needs money, its your decision to give them some.
So actually, we are teaching our children a good thing in this situation. And we are also showing our children the true colors of their community and how important we think they are.
ClearThinker,
"Who is this Arbitrator?"
*Won't know unless we get that far.
"Also I'm sure you have access to how much these votes cost us each time."
*$1,300.00 sticks in my head. If it's wrong I'll post the correct amount. I know it cost this fellow here more than it cost the district. Copy link below and paste it in your browser...
https://webapp.iecdb.iowa.gov/PublicView/county/Plymouth/Independent_Expenditure/Langel_Keith.pdf
"if all your friends jumped off a bridge, would you?"
*Only if I was on fire and the water I needed to extinguish it was below.
"no significant difference between the districts that have the ISL and those that don't."
*A district could become addicted to an ISL. The ISL is not a right. I see the ISL as temporary help. Five years if it goes through without a petition (no cost for an election either). Addiction to an ISL would be a mistake. If we aren't in good shape with continued cuts and ISL help by the end of five years here at Le Mars Community it will be petitioned and defeated. Then you would see BIG cuts.
"$'s spent does not equal a quality education."
*Agree, look what they spend in D.C.
"Mankind are governed more by their feelings than by reason."
*Yes it is a wonderful system...mankind governed by petition.
If things are not fixed in 5 years then we will see really big cuts. Wouldn't that make things even worse than they are now? It's almost like a gamble letting the ISL go through. Shouldn't we tackle the problem at hand first before we try to tackle even a bigger problem.
Isn't the real problem to be fixed is that we have declining enrollment which causes less revenue with expanding expenses.
To solve this problem we either need to increase revenue by expanding enrollment or cut expenses or a combimnation of both.
Since we have little immediate control over enrollment, don't we really need to cut expenses.
commonsense anyone?,
Merry Christmas.
"Wouldn't that make things even worse than they are now?"
*It would if all we do is collect and spend the ISL.
What I meant with "If we aren't in good shape with continued cuts and ISL help by the end of five years here at Le Mars Community it will be petitioned and defeated. Then you would see BIG cuts." is, we need to cut our spending and reduce use of the ISL every year or there will be a huge problem in five years.
"Since we have little immediate control over enrollment, don't we really need to cut expenses."
*The ISL monies would act as invisible new students, so it is, in a way, immediate control over enrollment.
The discipline that the school board will have to exercise is to reduce the number of invisible students (ISL taxes collected) as we cut spending.
"Isn't the real problem to be fixed is that we have declining enrollment which causes less revenue with expanding expenses."
*Yes, I firmly believe that if the district had a declining enrollment of say, 10 students a year over the next 8 years versus a loss of 81 students in one year we would be thinking of other things.
Thank you Mr. Smith.
Friends:
They just aren't getting it..
It does no good to go to the board meetings as the don't want to listen, they want to preach. If they were listening we wouldn't be voting a third time on this.
Talk to your neighbors especially the elderly and those you know on a fixed income. Offer them rides to vote NO.
Make sure your Gehlen friends get out to vote NO.
Do not donate to the Booster clubs..(which is really too bad).
Be prepared for another onslaught of propaganda and scare tactics..they will be walking around asking to put signs in your yard..etc..
If we do nothing, this minority, will eventually steamroll us with a new tax and there is no doubt in my mind they would be back again before we know it asking for even more money.
We didn't create the mess YOU DID and you haven't learned. Prove to us you have learned and are committed to "controlling costs, as best we can..." in the immortal words of Dr. Stelzer.
**For my husband and I to even consider not voting NO, we would need to see absolutley NO pay raise (arbitrator or not) and Wendts resignation. As the Ad Hoc CEO of this District, there has to be some accountablilty and pain for this mess. He is replaceable.
I didn't say we would vote yes..I said we would consider not voting NO.
Man was I right. You all did jump on this again and sounded stupid as usual. Didn't disappoint me.
"It's not a situation of responsibitiy and accountibility because this is how our government works."
How sad is that!
"Government relies on your money. When governemnt needs money, its your decision to give them some."
That is correct and the people of Le Mars school district said NO twice. that should be the end of it.
Maybe their stubbornness proves the need?
Mr Smith,
If you don't have money to negotiate, how much do you have to lose???? if there isn't anything to negotiate, how can you negotiate? This country is experiencing an economic downturn. Money is going to be tight for the companies and people of the community. I say end the teacher contracts coming up for renewal and start over with independent negotiations for each of those positions. Then renogotiate using the pay of comparable size districts and within means of the budget. This way there isn't any arbitrator, not additional expenses.
For teachers who are not ending contract, present a situational negotiation and keep the costs down, explaining that pay cuts are in order or loss of positions, arbitration costs to be absorbed in funds available for pay.
To assume that you will automatically lose negotiations does not speak well for the school board nor the teachers union. Understanding funds availability and cuts potential should assist in any real negotiations. Pay cuts are in order.
I agree that with the current budget scenario calls for the resignation of Mr Wendt. A balanced budget without additional funds is a REQUIREMENT. We don't need another ISL, that should be an extreme measure, not an every year necessity.
One thing i would like to see what these funds are exactly going to be used for. Not just for the general fund. for Example last year we spent $xxx.xx on the ________ dept and we need $xxx.xx
to maintain or improve this dept. i think this would help ease peoples minds. i am proud of the fact that Le Mars Community has not had to resort to the ISL in the past. the people of Le Mars have always stood behind the school district and given them what they requested, but now maybe they have gotten used to this and the community has finally said enough.
i think the teachers at LCS are at this time receiving a fair salary when you compare to other local school districts. But with this economy there has to be some give and take. Most other state run departments have had to take their cuts without the option to ask the community for more money.
Would starting out with a 5% max on year one and dropping a percent each year work? then maybe by the end of five years the budget should be in order.
"If you don't have money to negotiate, how much do you have to lose????"
**the district's general fund balance of $1.2 million or our unspent authority of $4.8 million via a Cash Reserve Levy(Posted earlier on this page).
"if there isn't anything to negotiate, how can you negotiate?"
**All kinds of Contract items that cost the district money which doesn't come up as salary in the budget.
You seem confused, please enlighten us all regarding your experience in negotiations with a Teacher's Union.
Also please include your name so what you say can be credited to you.
ADifferentView
Please afford Dr. Wendt the respect he has earned...if you are going to suggest he resign then please note his appropriately garnered moniker. Please let us know where you researched the charter school data. I for one, would like to know more about the saving graces of this educational alternative.
Maybe I wasn't clear enough. There is a problem when more funds are going out than coming in, basic economics. When there is lack of funds, it is best to cut back to prevent insufficient fund problems. To provide a pay raise when there aren't enough funds coming in to sustain would be counter productive.
My understanding of teacher contracts may be limited, I have not negotiated them directly. I have however, negotiated other contracts. I don't know when the current contracts expire; aren't they annual renewal for all, with some having tenure clauses? All I am trying to suggest is that there is a possibility of negotiating the contracts and pay for next year. The pay should reflect the budget available to work with. There's a simple concept here! When we need to borrow to make ends meet, that's a negative number; so should be the pay, right? Cut expenses, but try to impact the students a little as possible; thats the goal. Do I have that correct? Simple economics and negotiations. Make it as comlex as you like, it boils down to the same basic principles. The health care expenses being paid are out of line with available plans available on the open market. The Teachers Union negotiations shouldn't be poised to make a tax increase to get a pay raise! If so, new teachers should be hired to replace the existing ones with contracts that make sense. You assume that the school will be forced into a taxation increase to allow for a pay increase... and when you don't get it? The CRL could be used but could also end up snarled in court challenges (taxation without representation comes to mind...) Should we assume that an arbitrator would make such a drastic course of action? Other industries with unions are finding they need to back down from their aggresive stances of demanding more and more. The resources will eventually vaporize.
Next, the textbooks not being renewed every year. It sounds like a good rotational plan to cut the budget and get replacements on some schedule that makes sense (maybe math books one year, science another etc.) Good cost cutting measure with limited negative impact to the students. Great job on that idea!
I'm sure there are other places within the budget that can be negotiated that have not been considered.
Again, I'm not against the ISL; I'm against spending that doesn't make sense. I've asked for specifics in your wording of how the ISL will specifically be used. It should be presented so the people of the community can see precisely why they need this. Vagueness has been used by enough politicians for corruption. People are more cautious about assuming that everything will be tended to in our best interests.
DanSmith
As my name suggests, I have a different view. I look outside the box of traditional ideas and attempt to break barriers that no longer make sense to have. I continue to look for ways to make the budget work by simple changes that could work to lower our financial dependency, increase community involvement; and most of all provide for the students of our schools/people of our community. I won't tolerate your berating comments in the future concerning my experience.
One_in_the_know
I saw it used in replacement for some of the Colorado Springs schools that were having trouble. I saw that it had to work within budget, increased teacher/student involvement in education. They had to maintain within the budget alloted. They had a little trouble at first but did quite well bringing students up to levels required by the state. The Charters aren't a cure all for all problems but it brought the community back to core and built up from there.
I have read all the posts by
ADifferentView,CommonSense Anyone, Economics101,ClearThinker and wonder why the responses to these people is always negative defense instead of listening to new out of the box thinking. It seems obvious to me that these people have been around awhile and have much business experience. I think the School Board and Dr. Wendt have the idea that they are the only ones qualified to solve this problem when in fact there may be others that not only could solve this problem but have solved even much more difficult problems in their own business dealings. There doesn't seem to be much listening going on by the current adminstration and again I will refer to the ISL tunnel vision they seem to have. How can we get the adminstration to try and travel some different roads instead of always going down the same road through the ISL tunnel?
ADifferentView
"Maybe I wasn't clear enough. There is a problem when more funds are going out than coming in, basic economics."
***We had a balanced budget for this current year until Gov. Culver made his across the board cuts. Now we are unbalanced for this current year by at least ($140,000.00)
"When there is lack of funds, it is best to cut back to prevent insufficient fund problems."
***Even before we knew about Gov Culver's cut our plan was to cut at least $180,000.00 for next year.
"To provide a pay raise when there aren't enough funds coming in to sustain would be counter productive.
My understanding of teacher contracts may be limited, I have not negotiated them directly. I have however, negotiated other contracts. I don't know when the current contracts expire; aren't they annual renewal for all,"
***Yes, unless they are reduced out.
"with some having tenure clauses?"
***No tenure, only seniority. New teachers get cut first. If a long term teacher's position is reduced and he qualifies for a newer teacher's spot, the newer teacher goes.
"All I am trying to suggest is that there is a possibility of negotiating the contracts and pay for next year."
***We are going to try to negotiate as low a settlement as possible so we don't have to cut staff so much that it effects the total education product offered.
"The pay should reflect the budget available to work with."
***Unfortunately, the keep/cut decisions will reflect the total contract increase.
"There's a simple concept here! When we need to borrow to make ends meet, that's a negative number; so should be the pay, right?"
***It should be that simple...I wish it was. We honestly don't know where we will stand next year until the State Legislature decides this coming session. If they give us 4% allowable growth, approx. $500,000.00 increase, we will be in less peril than if we get no allowable growth. I feel we need to be conservative and plan for no allowable growth at the best. If we get no allowable growth it could mean $500,000.00 in cuts on top of the $180,000.00 we have planned and the $140,000.00 that Gov. Culver took away earlier this month. A possible $820,000.00 in cuts to balance the budget.
"Cut expenses, but try to impact the students a little as possible; thats the goal. Do I have that correct?"
*** Yes, but when salaries are 82% of our total budget 82% of any cuts will most likely impact students.
"Simple economics and negotiations. Make it as comlex as you like, it boils down to the same basic principles."
***Nothing simple about it. Our future not only hangs upon negotiations with the Teacher's Union it also hangs upon a not yet convened legislative session in Des Moines mentioned above.
"The health care expenses being paid are out of line with available plans available on the open market."
***I can't comment on that.
"The Teachers Union negotiations shouldn't be poised to make a tax increase to get a pay raise!"
***I don't think THEY want that.
"If so, new teachers should be hired to replace the existing ones with contracts that make sense."
***I don't think WE want that.
"You assume that the school will be forced into a taxation increase to allow for a pay increase... and when you don't get it?"
***Reductions 82% of which will impact classrooms directly.
"The CRL could be used but could also end up snarled in court challenges (taxation without representation comes to mind...)"
*** The Cash Reserve Levy is used every year by districts in Iowa. I don't see much about it in the news.
"Should we assume that an arbitrator would make such a drastic course of action?"
*** All we can do is look at the history of their actions
"Other industries with unions are finding they need to back down from their aggresive stances of demanding more and more. The resources will eventually vaporize."
*** True
"Next, the textbooks not being renewed every year. It sounds like a good rotational plan to cut the budget and get replacements on some schedule that makes sense (maybe math books one year, science another etc.)Good cost cutting measure with limited negative impact to the students. Great job on that idea!"
***Thanks, we never replace all textbooks at the same time. They have been in a rotation of sort for a long time in the district.
"I'm sure there are other places within the budget that can be negotiated that have not been considered."
*** Not really, everything is being looked at and trimmed where possible.
"Again, I'm not against the ISL; I'm against spending that doesn't make sense. I've asked for specifics in your wording of how the ISL will specifically be used. It should be presented so the people of the community can see precisely why they need this. Vagueness has been used by enough politicians for corruption. People are more cautious about assuming that everything will be tended to in our best interests."
*** I am with you. Vague is not my strong suit.
"DanSmith
As my name suggests, I have a different view. I look outside the box of traditional ideas and attempt to break barriers that no longer make sense to have. I continue to look for ways to make the budget work by simple changes that could work to lower our financial dependency, increase community involvement; and most of all provide for the students of our schools/people of our community."
***Me too.
"I won't tolerate your berating comments in the future concerning my experience."
***Merriam-Webster definition of berating..."to scold or condemn vehemently and at length"
Please show me where this fits and I will apologize.
WOW did that last post take a while to type or what? crazy...........
This all boils down to LeMars,
Being a long time resident of this lovely little town I've noticed a couple of things. Overall, we live in a beautiful community that is very well taken care of, of course that is a matter of perspective. (Those of you who have not left Le Mars are not allowed to complain about the quality of our little town) We are all able to attend many parades during the year, go to see a city band, get our streets cleared of snow pretty darn quickly, enjoy a fairly crime free environment, and see our children get a quality education. Guess what??? all of this costs money. I completely understand that we are all struggling, I think about that every time I put money into my child's college account, but that doesn't stop me from doing it. It is interesting that the people of Le Mars post as many blogs as they do when this dreaded ISL comes up. I don't see as many when articles are printed about the other public works in our town that, by the way also cause our taxes to increase. Maybe I'm just to rich, to giving, to compassionate about our town. I don't mind paying any of these taxes. That is why I live here. I understand that to live in a great community I have to fork over a little dough, yeah it is a little for me, but guess what, you make more money you pay more taxes, that is how it works in our system. I hope that the residents of Le Mars come to their senses and realize that a quality education is worth paying for, just like the golf course, just like the band, just like the police force, and just like the beautiful parks that we enjoy so much.
!Do the right thing Le Mars!
LeMars Lover:
I agree with you 100%. The park board, the golf course, and the police department all live within their budgets. Is it asking too much for the school adminstration to live within their budget?
The real problem that I have is increasing the deficit and taxing to make it balance. There is a limit to what can be levied in taxes in Iowa for schools. We have a cut in money from the state. Our teachers and staff want a large pay increase and benefit increase. And there will be increases in utilities. The resources available to work with in future years won't be there when needed if spending continues as it has been. If this were a business, stockholders would be holding the board accountable, releasing those who are not performing.
DanSmith, no comment on benefits; does that mean you don't know or are you looking into that?
I still think that negotiations in teacher pay (80% of the budget) should be a major impact to making the budget work. A pay cut or at minimum a freeze for several years is in order to make the budget balance. Then when the need for more funds is needed, the board can show the people that cuts have been made in all areas. The request for tax increase would then be an easier sell. If there is a teacher pay increase and a benefit increase, this tells the taxpayers that there is more money available in the current budget.
With the SILO funds, what about making some green decisions that will reduce utility costs in the future? This would reduce the need for some of the general fund deficit in future years (including this coming one).
We have the technology, it can be done. Actions by the board will demonstrate how dedicated to the budget they really are.
Quoting ADifferentView...
"DanSmith, no comment on benefits; does that mean you don't know or are you looking into that?"
My response...
I know, but am on the board negotiating team. To be on the safe side it is best to not comment on what might be discussed in closed negotiations with the union.
Quoting ADifferentView...
"With the SILO funds, what about making some green decisions that will reduce utility costs in the future? This would reduce the need for some of the general fund deficit in future years (including this coming one).
We have the technology, it can be done. Actions by the board will demonstrate how dedicated to the budget they really are."
My response...
I like this idea.
See link below referring to an earlier post of mine on a different Sentinel story.
http://www.lemarssentinel.com/story/1484...
Quoting my post at above link...
"Now for my out of the box ideas.
*We get SILO sales tax funds every year for infrastructure improvements. Let's look into being as energy efficient as possible in all of our buildings with this money.
This would mean new energy efficient heating systems, lighting, doors, and windows in all buildings that need them."
Take a close look at the names on the upcoming petition which will be demanding a vote on the school board's ISL proposal. In my opinion over 95% of the names will be wealthy landowners and/or Gehlen supporters. It is a shame that our community cannot work together for the best interests of all of our children.
Is their something wrong letting the public vote on political issues?
DanSmith, I probably won't be able to make it Wednesday for the meeting. I'm hoping your input can make the difference! Thanks!
I don't know why the school board is calling for a third vote. These members are voted into office by the people of the Le Mars school district. Their job is to represent their constituents, a job they are not doing. They are misrepresenting the people that voted them into office. The board members are doing this by not listening to what the people said in the previous two ISL votes. It really doesn't matter what the vote is for, these elected officials need to respect the wishes of the people they represent. The people of Le Mars have spoken, board members please listen!
cranemaster,
The Board may not be representing you in their endeavor to garner appropriate funding of our schools, but they sure are representing me. My guess is that a great many of those who voted these fine, hard-working volunteers into office are not the same stakeholders who vote down the ISL. I voted for my director and voted YES twice, so I guess they are doing right by me and I am one of "the people".
oneinthe Know:
I think you missed the point, that vote you made was a minority, and the Majority were against it. That means the representation is misrepresented by those members, correct?
People who are voted into positions to represent constituents need to represent their constituents, not only during the election time, but during their time in the position.
Politics... such a nasty thing it has turned into.
I beg to differ, as usual. The school board's primary duty is to represent the students and their education.
1. Increased taxes on a depressed society is good?
2. Students leaving because their parents lose their jobs because their employer doesn't want to compete with a higher tax base.
The school board needs to raise taxes/revenue because of a lack of students. The school board needs (X) students to not run into negative numbers. Do you not understand how they go hand in hand?
There are 2 core reasons why businesses relocate.
Taxes are too high and non competative wages.
The number one reason parents of school-aged children choose not to live in a community is a poor education system.
If businesses close and people leave because there are no jobs, does that matter to them?
Because they no longer live here!
Why would anyone want to increase taxes on a country/state/locality when they are already hurting?
Would you give a large rock to someone who can't swim and going under?
President Elect Obama is scaling back his plan for new taxes. Governor Culver has made cuts in state government. Don't you people see and understand the trends? Even the local city government has been forced to make cuts.
WE CANNOT AFFORD ANY MORE OF THIS!
I am not against kids or schools.
But, there has to be a point where enough is enough and there is no more to give.
We are at that point right now.
And yes, I see the school board has authorized another ISL vote.
Realize this: if more businesses close or layoff employees, those of us left have a greater tax burden. Which means that if the school board requires more funds to make up that balance, it will get much worse.
The school needs more kids to get more state money. If the tax base here is high then why would a business want to increase staffing or relocate here? They won't! By raising taxes and not adding jobs to pay fairly across the board, we are getting screwed to the nth degree.
Please think this through..
To those of you who think that a YES vote is the only way to go:
Please prove what I have written is wrong.
I can change my mind, but so far, I have not heard anything valid to tip the scale in your direction.
My main goal is for the board to balance their budget and live within their means, based on the tax money we already give them.
The federal government, state government and local government are already demonstrating they are having to cut back.
I do not think that what I am proposing is so far out of line.
To the oldone1:
As a point of clarification the school board has not authorized another ISL vote.
This is directly from the Sentinel online 1/8/09:
Le Mars Community School Board members voted unanimously to participate in the Instructional Support Program for a five-year period after a public hearing Wednesday.
To oldone1:
You're missing the point. While the school board did unanimously support participation in the Instructional Support Program (like well over 90% of the school districts in this state) it did not authorize another vote. We will go back to the polls only if, as before, a petition is filed (by those opposing the ISL) requesting a vote.
Should we go to the polls every time the City Council , Board of Supervisors, or another elective body makes a decision concerning the budget or the funding thereof? In my opinion we put our trust in our school board members when we went to the polls and voted them into their current positions.
The school board has failed us and we have to react by forcing this to a vote and putting it down. AGAIN.
Any answer to the question in my last post?
When the majority feel the outcome is wrong then a resounding YES!
The school board has not been a good steward of our tax dollars.
I cannot understand how anyone would want to raise taxes when we are in the midst of a recession.
The federal,state and even local governments are cutting back.
Do you really think the school board who has so far demonstrated they cannot manage their budget to give them more money?!
Would you put gasoline on a fire to put it out?!
The last two years they have screwed up and you want to give them an additional 5 years at 6% to make things all better?
How about this: if we are losing students at such an alarming rate, why have the current amount of teachers? Are we willing to have a student to teacher ratio of say 10:1?!
All options need to be looked at to balance the budget.
Forest:
"I beg to differ, as usual. The school board's primary duty is to represent the students and their education."
I see the students and their education on the same plane as the parents and community. What the board is currently doing is not in the best interest of the students nor the constituents whom they are to represent. They are to do the job that the voters (constituents who have a vested interest in the education of the students) elected them to do. In which case, by current observation has been a failure financially which in turn will affect the student's education. Symantics? It is still the same problem.
I disagree again. A majority of voters in this school district do not vote during school board elections. They do not care about the school and education. Also, the majority negative responders to this blogging are in the same boat. They worship the dollar and do not care about the school and education.
The primary duty of the school board is not to the public. It is to the education of the students. As stated in another thread, cuts have been made and being proposed. There is not enough cash in case of emergency or to cover for the state late payments. They are working fiscally. At least give them credit for taking it to a vote unlike like the city and county which just raised taxes. And they are holding back the CRL which doesn't take a vote of the people. They are working a thankless job with many mean spirited comments directed bluntly at them.
-- Posted by Forest
"Also, the majority negative responders to this blogging are in the same boat. They worship the dollar and do not care about the school and education."
..."They are working fiscally. At least give them credit for taking it to a vote unlike like the city and county which just raised taxes. And they are holding back the CRL which doesn't take a vote of the people. They are working a thankless job with many mean spirited comments directed bluntly at them."
I care very much about the education of the students, that is why I continue to monitor this so closely. It isn't mean spirited or the inspiration of a dollar that motivates me into this. It isn't a thankless job, but one of many satisfying rewards if run well. This is a time of challenge (but not great challenge, that is yet to come). Cuts are desparately needed. I have thanked them for some actions taken in my writing. I think the majority of folks here are concerned, want their voices to be heard. The people are really asking the board to do what it can before asking for additional funds, just approaching it differently.
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Albert Einstein
A Different View,
My apologies for the poor wording. I am running a temp and my emotions can get out of control at times, like now.
Since you say cuts are desperately needed, what exactly would you cut?
ClearThinker,
That phrase can be placed upon the same arguments being posted over and over again. My favorite is: A mind is like a parachute. It only works when it is open.
If I'm not mistaken this 3rd time for the ISL vote will be the last for several years. I don't think that it can be voted on again a 4th time. Also if this does not pass the RCL will still be available.
So to the (oldone1) while you and I agree on this issue, I'll give you the only good reason I know to vote yes and that is if the ISL doesn't pass the RCL comes into play without vote, without consent, and will have no time limitation on it. It's the weakest excuse I know but the ISL will have a duration on it and the ISL has one saving grace and that is, it does tax both owners and non-owners of property with the state income tax portion. I gave you 2 reasons now (oldone1) both are quite lame but still reasons or did you want good reasons?????
And make no mistake about it, that other than Dan Smith I have no reason to think the others won't pass the RCL if the ISL don't pass. That RCL is a school board vote only.
To All who happen to blog here or read these blogs:
More taxes does not necessarily mean a better school district, smarter students or better teachers.
I would site the Washington D.C. school system. One of the highest taxed rates in the country and one of the worst educational endeavours in the country. Throwing money at a problem is not the end all do all. And I am not a tightwad or a penny pincher. I am a realist. Why does fiscal responsibility equate to being cheap or selfish?
This school board has MISMANAGED the money we have already given them! Why do you want to give them more without making them come up with solutions to cope with the current issues?!
I understand failure of the ISL means the board attempts to pass a CRL. Fight this battel first and then that battle next. That is why we have a court system.
Why is every teachers job sacred? Do we really need the same amount of teachers with fewer students. PEOPLE look around you. When orders for goods and services are cuback then jobs are deleted. I don't like that, but it is reality.
Why should the teachers and adminstrative staffs be exempt?! The government is great at spending money but terrible at saving money. That is why the Soviet Union fell and the U.S. still survives.
Forest, hope you are feeling better now.
My recommended cuts would start from reveiwing each and every expense, and see if there is a way to reduce it or a way to modify it. Incorporating ideas from others is one way to ensure alternative ideas are able to be put in place. I suggest teacher salaries be cut or frozen for 3 years (added benefit of having the teachers being more resourceful and recommending their own cuts). Another recommendation would be to see where volunteers could offer assistance and allow people to sign up.
Extracurricular activities could be funded partially by the school and partially by boosters, and partially by businesses (yes boosters usually are the businesses and individuals but I'm thinking about some sponsoring/advertising bonus here).
Cut out more of the paper costs in upper grades, persue alternative learning methods (read more 'online' materials).
Renting the Y for school caught me by surprise. Wasn't aware of that, seems like a waste of funds, were Clark and Franklin in use? These expenses should be cut immediately if not in dire need.
I agree with DanSmith of using some silo funds to update doors and windows, thus saving general funds for utilities. We should look for inefficiencies in other areas that can be modified similarly.
I would suggest looking into purchasing the property of 6th ave and 12th street that was offered. A replacement school will be necessary in the future for Clark and Franklin. Setting the district up for this would also prevent a crisis crunch when the time comes (hopefully 10-25 years). Now is the time to be researching funds and grants for the new school as well. This location would reduce inter-city-school transportation and shuffle problems. This can impact the buget with more future savings (yes we need to be looking foreward, not just current).
Using the past 25 years student numbers, a projected average can be established for 5 years, combined with public records (births at the hospital), a good idea of any drops in population could be forecasted.
As for the ISL, it could pass but not with the approach being taken. It will pass hands down if the board can show that they have prevented a future need for the ISL (the cuts DanSmith said would have to be discussed yet). Those cuts have to take place before asking for money, re-organizing and prioritizing what they can to make it sustainable with a little extra cushion for emergencies. They have to show that the ISL will be only a bandaid, and show how they can put the schools back in the black without a constant crutch of ISL or CRL. CRL is a bad measure to utilize as it is strictly funded local. The school board is going to force itself into a corner and waste its lifeline of ISL by approaching the way they are.
You don't go to the bank and ask for a loan without having your your budget in line, your facts of income and expenses clearly identifiable. You don't offer the maid a raise if you can't pay your bills...
Clear demonstration by the board to correct the problem with a plan is imperative to making the ISL a success. This also will shore up how much they actually need.
We haven't heard anything concerning grants applied for by the board or grants received...
Does this clear up where my proposal for cuts would be?
"My recommended cuts would start from reveiwing each and every expense, and see if there is a way to reduce it or a way to modify it. Incorporating ideas from others is one way to ensure alternative ideas are able to be put in place."
- Agreed. The meeting I have attended I know they receive accounts and balances. Would like to see them scrutinize them more.
"I suggest teacher salaries be cut or frozen for 3 years (added benefit of having the teachers being more resourceful and recommending their own cuts). Another recommendation would be to see where volunteers could offer assistance and allow people to sign up."
- Can't agree on the cut, but a freeze could be a good answer. Depends on the negotiations. Volunteers are always welcome. My wife volunteers when she has time.
"Extracurricular activities could be funded partially by the school and partially by boosters, and partially by businesses (yes boosters usually are the businesses and individuals but I'm thinking about some sponsoring/advertising bonus here). "
- Boosters already fund a large amount. I am iffy on bring in businesses. According to a certain blogger, they already have WAY too much expense as is. Plus this is a government entity. For myself, there are a few businesses I refuse to do business with in town due to their politics. I think there may be a few others like me and thus would boycott the sport if they are sponsored by them. The cost of politics.
"Cut out more of the paper costs in upper grades, persue alternative learning methods (read more 'online' materials)."
- Have to be able to afford the computers for 750+- students. Brings us right back to cash flow problems. I think the idea has merit.
"Renting the Y for school caught me by surprise. Wasn't aware of that, seems like a waste of funds, were Clark and Franklin in use? These expenses should be cut immediately if not in dire need."
- All gyms are in use. However, if an extra game needed to be held, the elementary gym and the old MS gym were both under regulation in size. If a school objected to the size, then our option was to forfit the game. Another instance of we must build it right the first time and not worry about the cost.
"I agree with DanSmith of using some silo funds to update doors and windows, thus saving general funds for utilities. We should look for inefficiencies in other areas that can be modified similarly."
- Yep, this is a viable option that should be done!
"I would suggest looking into purchasing the property of 6th ave and 12th street that was offered. A replacement school will be necessary in the future for Clark and Franklin. Setting the district up for this would also prevent a crisis crunch when the time comes (hopefully 10-25 years). Now is the time to be researching funds and grants for the new school as well. This location would reduce inter-city-school transportation and shuffle problems. This can impact the buget with more future savings (yes we need to be looking foreward, not just current)."
- Only reason I would disagree is look at the hissy fit some people have trown because we bought a building that increase the size of the Alternative School and cut out the rent. Buying the land may give them a stroke. Which could be worth it.
"Using the past 25 years student numbers, a projected average can be established for 5 years, combined with public records (births at the hospital), a good idea of any drops in population could be forecasted. "
- As much as one can forcast, it will never be right. There was no way to forcast a 110 loss of students. What happens if 100 suddenly move out or in? Can't forcast that.
"As for the ISL, it could pass but not with the approach being taken. It will pass hands down if the board can show that they have prevented a future need for the ISL (the cuts DanSmith said would have to be discussed yet). Those cuts have to take place before asking for money, re-organizing and prioritizing what they can to make it sustainable with a little extra cushion for emergencies. They have to show that the ISL will be only a bandaid, and show how they can put the schools back in the black without a constant crutch of ISL or CRL. CRL is a bad measure to utilize as it is strictly funded local. The school board is going to force itself into a corner and waste its lifeline of ISL by approaching the way they are."
- We need something to preserve the education process and quality expected at LCHS. People are going to still expect it to run like a Jaguar yet pay for a Yugo. If the comments are correct at the hearing, we can't expect people to want to come to LeMars with the animosity shown towards the school board and the school. That just hurts the town.
"You don't go to the bank and ask for a loan without having your your budget in line, your facts of income and expenses clearly identifiable. You don't offer the maid a raise if you can't pay your bills...
Clear demonstration by the board to correct the problem with a plan is imperative to making the ISL a success. This also will shore up how much they actually need. "
- I believe they are trying. Look at the amount already cut, and this budget would have been balance had the state not cut the amount they will pay the school.
We haven't heard anything concerning grants applied for by the board or grants received...
Does this clear up where my proposal for cuts would be?
- Sure does. I appreciate it.
My comments on the LCS teacher Bortscheller campaigning for and introducing BHO in Le Mars were censored.
She and the Sentinel placed her in the public eye...I didn't.
Here is the first part of my post:
"Go figure...a left wing "educator" at LCS."
The Sentinel took it upon themselves to censor this...I guess we know which side of the fence the Sentinel swings to.
No raise! No New Taxes!
"I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to write." Voltaire, letter to M. le Riche, February 6, 1770
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yo, clearthinker:
your freedom of speech has not been punched in the eye. time, place, and manner restrictions are pretty much legit... and that's in the public forum. in a private forum, you've got next to nothing for rights. sorry, charlie.
if you feel strongly, run to the courthouse steps and yell: i dislike this person, i like this idea, i think xyz. god forbid we do things publicly (rather than anonymously) and have to own up to our viewpoints.
beyond that, aren't you floored by the irony that you're upset about being censored when you, in turn, want to censor the "liberal" views of an educator?
further, by engaging in anonymous dialogue, i posit that we further censor in that people will be less willing to share ideas publicly (or risk the faceless mob) meaning we lose so many potential benefits that arise from the idea sharing because people are scared or don't want the hassle.
lastly, even though voltaire was arouet's pen name, he at least owned up to his ideas. word.
Just wondering what RickHerbst Blog has to do with the ISL, why he needs to contradict ClearThinker on a subject that has nothing to do with the ISL and why is it still posted. I thought WE WERE SUPPOSE TO STAY ON SUBJECT AND RESPECT OTHERS OPINIONS. I guess it's a matter of opinion if a blog is on subject and respects others opinion.
Yes and this blog has nothing to do with the ISL so I suppose it too will be deleted.
Let's get back to the subject and quit nitpicking each other.
Not nit-picking. Just commenting on what was mentioned in the thread. I applaud Rick Herbst's comments and thought they are appropriate to the thread.
Great Job Rick! noworries: in a direct quote my children use frequently "He (clearthinker) started it". Now back to the ISL.
I like LeMars. We are small town with bigger city access without most of the bigger city problems. We have 2 great, mostly thriving schools. My children are safe and well educated. I have 4 children, my husband and both work full time jobs and we live pretty much paycheck to paycheck. We are not getting raises this year. We love to have our kids involved in everything they want and what we can afford. 2 mini b-balls and indoor soccer at the Y this winter $130. New braces for one of them $5100. We finally bought a computer and put internet in the house, that's an additional payment for us. Gas is going up again. Groceries have stayed up. Those of you who feed a family of 6 know what a grocery bill can be/month. Plus all of the other monthly bills that everyone else has.
I CAN NOT AFFORD ANYTHING ELSE!!! I am not saying this just to blow smoke. I will vote on every new or old tax that i can vote on and I will say no. I don't care what it is for right now cuz I can't do it. When this recession is over and things look better come talk to me. I'd love to help you, the community, whoever I can out. I don't want to see anything in this community suffer, especially our schools. But I can not help you right now! I will vote no!
Oldone1
I'm glad you're passionate about this issue. Without you and a handful of others, there wouldn't be much to read on this site. That being said, there are times where you confuse me.
In a previous post, it seems you were trying to compare the financial situations of the Washington DC school system and that of our small, rural Iowa school system? I would speculate the entire DC school system has almost as many administrators as LeMars high school has students. While the comparision fits your needs, it seems there may be better schools which could be used for comparison. Why not try comparing LeMars to Spencer, Spirit Lake, Storm Lake, Harlan, ect. etc. We may compare better, or we may compare worse, but at least it would be a relavent comparison.
You also stated that "Federal govt, state govt, & even local govts. are demonstrating they are having to cut back." You're right. I bet I read the same newspapers you do. I believe I've also read where where the school distict HAS made some significant cuts of their own. Have you forgotten about previous cuts? Maybe you missed those articles or were out of town when they were published.
I've read a few times from you that "Not every job is sacred". I believe the board has shown that in the form of cutting positions or not filling empty positions. It seems they too believe that not every job is sacred. Didn't this happen after the first vote, or am I mistaken? It seems to me from your posts about what needs to be done and the actions of the board, that the board is doing a good job.
Also, are you implying that the board, or anyone for that matter, is OK with a student/teacher ratio of 10:1 or that's a goal? Where did that come from? Do you know the current ratio of the LeMars public school system or even what's considered to be an acceptable ratio. Maybe the school district has run lean enough over the years that they're already higher than an "acceptable" ratio? I don't know, but neither do you I bet.
Finally, the part about "govt. is great at spending money, but terrible at saving money. That is why the Soviet Union fell and the US still survives". I'm not sure the US still survives because our govt. is GOOD at saving money. Maybe we don't read the same newspapers.
With all that being said, I respect your passion and opinions. I agree with you on many things such as higher taxes possibly chasing away potential business growth. Like most people I don't want to pay more taxes, but I'd also like to keep a STRONG school system that offers more the the absolute minimum of everything. If I'm going to pay more taxes, I'd at least like the money to stay local and see some benefit vs handing it over to the state or federal govt.
To Anytown
Thank you and ditto.
yo..rickherbst:
"beyond that, aren't you floored by the irony that you're upset about being censored when you, in turn, want to censor the "liberal" views of an educator?"
First of all your style is refreshing..Thank you..
Second..My posts in both threads were meant to point out that this School District does not represent the feelings and attitudes of the majority of its residents. As proven already by 2 NO votes on this NEW TAX.
How is that censoring? She is certainly entitled to her opinion just as the residents of this district are entitled to know who is influencing their children..don't you think?
Now to my recent reply to the Sentinel:
May God Forever Bless Colleen and Fred, and I truly mean that from the heart.
To Tom Stangl and no offense intended lest it be considered a lack of respect:
Most of the posts on this site could be considered "not respectful" by somebody.
Do you mean just the posts not considered respectful by you?
Can I complain about any post that offends me and you will censor it also? This article offends me. As a Newspaper in a vastly Conservative area of the country I am sure it offended alot of people.
You also said "Posting this comment in multiple places shows a lack of respect."....to whom? You?
Mrs Bortscheller is an "Educator" at LCS which is completley relevent to the ISL/Teacher Raise topic
Please forgive me as I am looking for some definition here.
How do I express an honest No-PC opinion without offending some Left-Wing...uh person?
There was nothing in my post that was any worse than what your Pro-ISL people post every day.
Tom, by deleting my post you were censoring it...
By the way I do have a RIGHT to say anything I want but it is your PRIVILEDGE to censor it on this site.
"In religion and politics, people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second hand, and without examination." Mark Twain
clearthinker:
thanks.
your twain quote is fitting in that it praises antitheses and, accordingly, i disagree.
firstly, your rights and privileges analysis is exactly backwards. you have the privilege to write on here, and the owner of the site has the right to censor. you don't have the right to come in my house and tell me how ugly my couches are. i can kick you out. sure, you have a right to that opinion, and you surely may walk the streets of lemars saying "rick herbst has some ugly couches." but once you come in my house, i can shut that down, either by kicking you to the curb or turning the tv up really loudly. or, continuing this house theme, just because you crash a house party doesn't make you bartender (and it doesn't make it cool when, as a guest (whose real name no one knows (like in the movie clue)), you act insolently).
secondly, let's not be cutesy. what's the purpose of calling something or someone 'left wing'? well, in what you call 'a vastly [c]onservative area of the country' i think the purpose is to jeer it. same with referring to obama as bho. yes, that's his initials, but the highlight is the 'h', which not so subliminally tells the world he is hussein/other/abject/evil. the intention is to say to that overwhelming and dominant majority of conservative individuals around lemars: this is different. it's not a battle cry; it's more of a battle whisper. it also happens to be censoring in that you signal, passive-aggressively, to the minority: you shouldn't be different. so then thoughts and ideas that a person thinks might be construed as being left wing can be left in the throat in order to align with the majority.
now i'm not saying that was your intention, but it's certainly how it reads and how it censors viewpoints.
"Clear" Thinker said: "She is certainly entitled to her opinion just as the residents of this district are entitled to know who is influencing their children..don't you think?"
"Clear" thinker, you do realize that she teaches calculus, right? Are you afraid that she's teaching LEFTIST calculus?
Do you support a program of purging liberals from certain professions? You know.. for the children? Last I checked, this is America and we don't persecute people for their political beliefs.
I'm curious, if you are so concerned about teachers indoctrinating our children into their own personal political ideologies, how do you feel about the Colleen's colleague at LCS that passed out lists of ten reasons to not vote for Obama to his students before the election?
"rickherbst"- Your welcome.
First - "your twain quote is fitting in that it praises antitheses and, accordingly, i disagree."
What?
Second - If you invite me into your house, as the Sentinel has invited my comments, I hope you appreciate my honesty and have thick enough skin to take my "ugly couch" opinion as just that, my opinion.
I do have the right to call your couch ugly, but you also have the right to kick me out, so I guess you are half right. (wow..3 rights in one sentence.)
By the way..BHO is easier and quicker than writing Barack Hussein Obama aka Barry Soetoro.
"If liberty means anything at all it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." - George Orwell in his original Introduction to Animal Farm.
What's wrong with BHO? Remember FDR, JFK, LBJ. Also, most Presidents use their middle initial when signing bills into law. Rick, I guess if you think the the H represents something other than his middle name, isn't that really your problem.
quickly...
the presidents you listed all had other presidents with similar names. jfk and rfk were used to separate and avoid confusion between 'kennedy'. similarly, tr and fdr were used for 'roosevelt' and lbj was used to avoid confusion with president andrew johnson.
i have honestly never seen nixon referred to as rmn. in fact, please give me the shorthand initials for reagan, carter, and ford off the top of your head if the initials are used for multiple presidents. i can't do it -- probably because no one called them that because there's no confusion as to who is being addressed. just like obama because, ya know, we've never had another president named obama.
so the use of initials is an accepted practice, but the use of 'bho' is used for a different purpose than jfk, rjk, fdr. i think that different purpose is to smear him. with my name, richard, i was once called 'dick' on the playground and the kid's defense was so lame -- it's your name, what's the big deal? well, the big deal is you're using the name 'dick' pejoratively, just like how bho is commonly used today.
and on efficiency. bho, at just two letters under obama, isn't that much of a time-saver. also, it's more jarring to read than obama. when many people encounter bho they have to stop and think: what's that again? oh, that person means president obama. in that regard, it's less efficient.
...
your twain quote talks about why we need to see both sides of an argument and think critically. it fit since i was about to offer a differing opinion in the debate.
...
you're mixing conventions and rights in the house analogy. sure, it might be a convention that i take your ugly couch comment and stomach it, but you have no legal right to say it in my home. it's a private forum just like this comments section. but we can get away from the analogy if it isn't hitting the answer home. read the legal agreement to which you agreed when you became a member to post on this site. that should clear up for you the fact you've got zilch for rights here.
:rick
Rick: You got the wrong guy. I didn't make any Twain quote.
And if you want to use BO. that's find with me. When I was in school that meant Body Odor.
I had a friend in school also named Richard who we all called Dick (teachers included) and never thought anything about it, nor did he. He referred to himself as Dick.
Again I think all this is in your head not ours.
sorry for taking the discussion to far afield.
noworries: i was responding to clearthinker in regard to twain.
and you're missing my point, intentionally i gather. the point is in the intention of the speaker and not end results.
if that doesn't click, let's move on.
Last post for me here, so to keep on topic...No New Tax..No Raises!
rickherbst: Your style changes when you get flustered...its kinda cute..
(My husband says I need to quit flirting with you.)
Why would you think I am trying to send negative subliminal thoughts by using BHO when I have been quite clear and loud with my opinion that supporting this Presidents ideas would be like supporting cancer? His ideas are wrong for America.
I kinda like "noworries" idea about using B.O...now that is funny!..lol
"your twain quote talks about why we need to see both sides of an argument and think critically. it fit since i was about to offer a differing opinion in the debate."
Rick, you are exactly wrong on the quote by Mark Twain...the quote is actually quite clear in that most people accept the opinions of others such as CNN or Sean Hannity second hand as fact...without examining/investigating the issue themselves and without developing their own conclusion. You are right about thinking critically, though.
Rick, I don't believe you are one of those people which is why I am interested in your opinion.
T.J. Templeton on the other hand is a prime example of this phenom. Why should I be interested in what he has to say, when all I have to do is turn on CNN to get his opinion?
T.J. - I just read your blog...do you have an original thought? Don't answer here as I won't reply...show me elsewhere.
"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." Ralph Waldo Emerson
Virtually every other district in Iowa passed an ISL long before Le Mars' attempts to pass one.
It seems the logic is that it doesn't matter that LCS was fiscally responsible enough to avoid an ISL for many years, the fact that they need it now points to their incompetence.
Someone earlier said passing the ISL teaches the students that you do not need to be fiscally responsible because someone will bail you out. I don't see that at all. If anything the ability of the LCS to avoid the need of it for so long points to how they have been among the most fiscally responsible districts in the state.
I also do not see the logic in teaching our students responsibility by allowing there education to suffer by not supporting the ISL. It makes no sense.
I am also interested in the talk of the great success of charter schools. While they may be a solution in some situation there are many issues with charter schools. Are the people who bring up charter schools thinking that all schooling should be done in charter schools? The slight advantage charter schools have is that they do not have to teach every student. If a student is a discipline problem...they can be asked to leave.
In most cases charter schools do not offer the variety of opportunities for students that public schools do. Below is a quote from article about charter schools from the ap AP in 2006.
"Independently run, publicly financed charter schools perform no better than comparable public schools, long-awaited federal data suggested Tuesday.
Long considered a ticket out for students in poor public schools, charter schools have proliferated nationwide and are among reforms favored by the Bush administration. In Washington, D.C., one in four students attends one.
But Tuesday's report, which for the first time compares the performance of students in charters with that of public school peers in similar neighborhoods, finds that charter school students lag slightly.
The data show, for instance, that charter school students in 2003 were several points behind their counterparts in both reading and math in fourth and eighth grades. Standardized math scores in urban charters also lagged, but reading scores were comparable."
If as a community we continue vote down the ISL the Le Mars Community School District will be forced into a position where they will begin to look like a charter school. They will have limited opportunities for students and will not be able to afford enough qualified teachers. The ISL should have passed the first time.